Li usual metode del auxlang amicos es changear lingues al personal preferentie vice li actual usu del lingue. E, yo pensa que on deve aprender e comprender li metodes del lingue in prim.

Por exemple, in Occidental noi usa "have" vice "hav". Adplu, yo crede que on deve comprender li metode del extraction de paroles por li lingue in prim.

Quande on have un bon e complet comprension del lingue, alor ti es li témpore por changear li lingue con altri e nov idés.

Nu, si on va leer li Kosmoglott nró 1 on decovrit que Occidental hodíe have un grand amelioration supra li Occidental de 1922. Ma li ameliorationes esset fat de usatores del lingue quam lor prim lingue de usation. Hodíe li idé es "changear li lingue constantmen vice usa li lingue constantmen".

In li Kosmoglott e Cosmoglotta jurnales hay mult discussiones por li changeament de Occidental, ma li lingue hodíe es basicmen li sam lingue de 1922 con ameliorations considerat durante annus de Occidentalistes e ne via novicies al lingue de díes o semanes o solmen lunes.

Yo preferre aprender li lingue completmen e alor considerar changes. Si yo have errores in mi textu alor yo deve amelior mi usu de Occidental til yo es completmen competent in li lingue alor yo posse far changes de amelioration.

Exemples:

vol proposir = va porposir

do il dev inventer = dunc il deve inventer, etc.

On sav li damne grand causat al historie del moviment por un lingue international quand Zamenhof refusat changeaments por Esperanto. = On save... quande Zamenhof...

Nu li complet historie de Occidental ha esset un historie de change in e por li lingue. Hodíe noi have li maxim bon version de Occidental desde 1922. E li lingue va continuar changear, ma solmen con usation in li "strada" del public.

Li information de sr. Pigal ne es li modern metode approvat del Academie de Occidental, ni Matejka, ni Haas, etc. etc. Li site mentionat in vor commente ne presenta li modern information pri li lingue Occidental, o pos 1949, Interlingue. Li information is de 1929. Mult changes ha esset fat durante li annus 1930 til hodíe. 

Bon vésper!

Ah, terrible es un gallicism! Naturalmen, yo ha amat li video; in anglese, "terrible" correspond a "terrific"!

Yo ne conosset li pronunciation de Matejka e altres. Ya, li pronunciation de"t" in  "tion", "tie" e "tia" es tolerat. Ma, un del melior partisans de Occidental contemporan de Von Wahl, E.Pigal, ha bon explicat que li "etymologic  ortografie " [sic] es preferibil a ti adress:   

Naturalmen, on dev pronunciar "w" quam in anglese in li no'mins commun; ma "Von Wahl" es un no'min proprie, e li bon pronunciation german es "fôn vâl".

A bentost (por li duesim video)

Oliver de Lotringia

Olivier,

Quo es ti-ci usu de "terribil"? In anglés ti es "terrible".

Yo pensa que ti unesim video es marvelosi, ne terribil.

Nu, pronunciation. Yo ne comprende vor usu de Occidental. Forsan, it es vor preferentie vice li grammatica de Occidental.

 Por exemple: "ALL the consonants used in this lesson are pronounced as IN ENGLISH." Lesson 1, p. 1, Occidental lessons for English Speakers.

Dunc, li "w" in anglés ne es "v", ma "w".

E, li exemples de pronunciation de Matejka e altri Occidentalistes es "ts" in "-tion".

Ti es proque in altri lingues li "-tion" es "-cion", dunc in Occidental omni lingues de europa es considerat.

Bob 

Terribil!

Nequo posse stopar Bob!

It es li unésim vez que yo audi occidental parlati de un altri voc quam mei. Congratulations.

Ne oblivia: "t" in li vocabuls in "tion" dev esser pronunciat quam "t", nequande quam "s" ni "ts". Secun von Wahl (pronuncia li "w" quam "v" proque il esset un baltogerman), li pronunciation litteral es plu logic proque li lingues natural hav sons dissimil (ex: "sh" in anglese, "s" in francese, "ts" in german) e yo hav li sam in sambahsa.

Mes hommages à Arlene

A bentost

Olivier

Why in the world would someone not want to register here? The fact is, by registering more services are offered to each registered member.

Not only that, it provides some protection from the spam that everyone complains about.

In addition to that, members are offered space for their own blog, etc.

If individuals interested in the auxlang subject are willing to register at lists elsewhere with only the right to post replies to a discussion, and nothing more, then there is even more reason to register here.

Here one can carry on discussions by going to the Auxlang Discussion Loc.

Can post files as one sees with "uropi" etc.

Auxlang vocabularies can be posted and or downloaded, along with grammars, etc. all in one location.

There is absolutely no reason not to register here, except.... I'll let you guess what that one is.

Bob 

Yes, Dutton Speedwords and Dutton World Speedwords are slightly different.

The first is known primarily as a "shorthand" system for English speakers. Although, it can be used by any language speaker who learns Speedwords.

The Dutton World Speedwords was to be used as an international language and was a "distant" branch of the language Esperanto. Esperanto did not grow at all in Dutton's experience. He had spent considerable money in England advertising and promoting Esperanto. But, it went no where. So, he thought something "added" was needed to cause people to use an international language. At the time it is not certain he knew about Occidental. Anyway, he created Speedwords as a "double speed" International Language. It became fairly popular, but really began to grow when Dutton began to emphasize the "double-speed" writing for simple note taking.

With the note-taking system Dutton Speedwords, one can combine words and phrases. In other words, run them together to save time in writing and increase speed to upwards of 120 words per minute. This does not count the speed which could be obtained on the typewriter, or now, the computer.

Thus in Dutton Speedwords one can write pn for can not. However, in World Speedwords this is not allowed as it is meant to be a language. In fact, though, this phrasing and combining could be taught within the grammar of the "international language" manuals of Speedwords. There is no good reason why, even in international communication a Speedwordist could not understanding the phrasing.

Of course, one has to be careful in the beginning to not create phrases or combinations that conflict with the official vocabulary of the system.

Here are a few examples of phrase contractions:

as soon as, would be, z ja z in the international language. But, the phrase contraction becomes zjz in the shorthand version of Speedwords.

Thus, this method eliminates the spaces between letters, which also take time since the writing instrument must be lifted from the page to make the next letter. Others are:

as-well-as zuz

as-much-as zmz

dear-sir zao

and so forth.

Bob 

[I seem to have forgotten where contributions should be posted, so I put it here for now...]

For another contribution, see the Speewords <=> English online translator created by William Patterson (a.k.a. Ailanto) at:

 http://www.kafejo.com/lingvoj/auxlangs/dws/tral/index.php

Such a tool can be useful in learning a language even though it's only what I would call a "first-level translator"; i.e., it just looks up each word of the input and outputs the corresponding dictionary entry in the other language.

One obvious use would be to type in all 1-letter "words":

a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z  

choose "From Speedwords", and click "Submit Query". You'll get a list of the Dutton Speedwords* one-letter words and their English equivalents. Note that, as for many (most?) auxlangs, there are no distinctions in person and number for the various tenses of verbs; so, for example:

e = am,are,is,be

And you'll also notice one of the "problems" with this level of the language: each one-letter word but the last is actually two characters, since we need some sort of separator so the translator will recognize the start of a new word. How can we (partially) solve that?

If you try:

I you he she it one we you they

and this time "to Speedwords":

Source language: English

I	= j
you	= eri, v
he	= s
she	= sh
it	= t
one	= eri, u
we	= w
you	= eri, v
they	= eri, g

so you now have all the personal pronouns. And checking for the difference(s) between "eri" and "v" for "you":

eri v 

Source language: Speedwords

eri	= one,you,they(impersonal)
v	= you

Although it's easy enough to edit such a small table "by hand", it's good to know that you can paste it into Word--or most any other word processor document--as a table and then select the second column and use "global replace" to get rid of the "= ", then the "eri, ".

To see how you might easily translate various tenses and moods (though not necessarily correct DS):

is was had have will would may might

Source language: English

is	= e
was	= y
had	= hy
have	= h, ha
will	= r, vo
would	= yr
may	= pi
might	= vigee, ypi

with a few more "strays" to check out: "ha", "vo", "vigee".

By such simple "browsing" (which most are used to doing now from surfing the web!) you can pick up a lot of useful beginner information--and save some in your personal notebook to review later and build on.

This translator is a "server-side" application written in PHP so, although you can download the source code from  the site, you have to do some work to install it on your own computer. The most obvious way is to install some web server so you can then "serve yourself". Another way is to translate it to a programming language that can be used without extra bother as a "client-side" application, either in a browser, or as a standard windowed or command line application.

I once began such a translation in response to a request on the Yahoo raplinrie group:

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/raplinrie/

I'll dig it up (it was about three years ago) and make it available here.

(To be continued...)

---
*
Note that there are some differences between Dutton Speedwords (DS = a shorthand system for English) and Dutton World Speedwords (DWS = a shorthand system for all languages and, hence, an international auxilliary language). In the beginning (if I'm permitted to say that?) you needn't worry about the differences, and most resources you'll find on the WWW will be DS.

Al adress internet  secuent, yo ha trovat un dictionarium etymologic de esperanto u li autor (li Hungar L.Rajka) subteni i'ndirectmen mi position. Yo traduct quo il scri:

"In mi opinion, Zamenhof parlat solmen quar lingues bon. De tels, tri esset su lingues natal: Yiddish (durant su viv, li lingue del Judàs vivent in Bialystok e plu tard in Varsovia), Russ (su patre parlat a su familie in hem in Russ; in ultra, it esset li lingue official de Polonia in ti epoc, do anc del scol) e Polon (li lingue de tut li gent vivent in Varsovia, tem gentili quam judà). In addition, Zamenhof parlat tre bon German, un lingue de quo li conossentie perfect esset un plus por omni Judàs educat vivent in Varsovia.

Pro que su familie provenit de Lituania, Zamenhof havet un viv interess in Lituanian, e benque il nequande parlat ti lingue currentmen, su conossentie de lituanian parols es clarmen reflectet in li vocabularium de Esperanto. In addition, it es clar que il amat li sons de ti lingue: Li phonologie esperantic secue evidentmen li caracteri'sticas phonologic de Lituanian. Li idé segun quo omni no'mins esperantic devet desiner med un -o esset -minstmen in part - pruntati del desinentie masculin de no'mins lituanian; ex: fokuso = Lit. fokusas; lotuso = Lit. Lotosas....

Olivier

Sellgumt !

Dank ob visite nos.

Her yu ghehdte joine id Auxlang Communitat. Id est un communitat leuden interessen ab id use uns auxiliar lingua pro communication.

I members ios Communitat hehlpe mutu med id inhalt tos site.

Her wey members ghehdmos produce blogs, wikis, articles, ed meis. Hol est kwohrn ab members pro smautrers kam vos.

Ia present reuls kay joine id Communitat sont simple. Weidwos, maghient change sei id Communitat crehsciet tiel un plieute quer un responsible voten ghehdt ses kwohrn de quaquid proposen prabhils pro membertat. Nunghi, en ia reuls:

1°- Yu dehlgiete ses interesst ab uces ed/au presente un specific auxiliar lingua. Talga linguas, per exempel, qua sont meist gnohn, sont Occidental-Interlingue, Ido, Esperanto, Novial, Interlingua, Mundial, Neo...etc.

2°- Yu dehlcte vos register kay poste material, dake un blog...etc.

3°- Yu dehlcte register vies druv nam.

Est sat baygh pro nun. Itak, iter, sellgumt, ed gwehmte joine nos.

Un clar influentie de lituane es li personal pronomine del 3 persona ghi in esperanto que deve originar in lituanian jis m e ji fem

 In mi comprension on posse parlar de un Sprachbund inter polonesi e lituan, ben que hay grand differenties in li grammatica, li influentie de polonesi es indisputabil. 

Li sol factu que Zamenhof usat -o, -os, -us, -as etc in su lingue ne deve signalisar prestes del lituan, on vel poser con li sam rason atributer ili al latin classic.

Leent li oldi traductiones in esperanto, pro exemple ti de Antoni Grabowski del Faraon per Boleslaw Prus, on trova significant similarita del syntaxe polonesi e ti de esperanto.

Li traduction de Quo Vadis per Henryk Sienkiewicz demonstra simile influenties. Si to esset un function del proximitá del traductiones al original polonesi o mem un demonstration del caracteristicas del lingue, remane a esser demonstrat.

In conclusion yo vole indicar que li influenties lituan posse esser limitat al ghi, -au e alcun altri lituan tractes.  

Hic vos pote junger la Communitate Auxilingua. I.E. un communitate de populo interessate in le uso de un lingua auxiliar pro communication. Membros de le communitate auxilia con le contento de iste sito. Ci noi membros pote producte blog, wikis, articulos, e plus. Toto es facte per membros pro visores como vos.

Le regulas a presente pro junger la communitato es simplice. Claro, illos pote cambiar depois le communitate cresce si grande que votante responsabile pote es facte sur qualque proposte regulas de membrato.

Si, por nunc, Hic le regulas:

1. Vos deve esser interessato in apprender de e/o presentante un specific lingua auxiliar. Tal linguas, pro exemplo, que es plus cognote es Occidental, Interlingua, Ido, Esperanto, Novial, Interglossa, Mundial, Neo, Etc.

2. Vos deve registrar pro poner material, obtener un blog, Etc.

3. Vos deve registrar con vostre nomine real.

Isto es belle multo illo pro nunc. Si, altere vice, Benvenite, e veni junger nos.

Merci por visitar con noi. 

Ci vu pot juntar li Communite Auxilingue. I.E. un communite de popule interessat in li uso de un lingue auxiliari por communication. Membres de li communite auxilia con li contente de ti situ. Ci noi membres pot produta blog,wikis, articles, e plu. Tot es fat per membres por visores quam vu.

Li regles a presente por juntar li communite es simpli. Clari, ils mey changear depoy li communite cresce si grand que votante responsabil pot es fat sur quelc propossit regles de membrate.  

Si, por nu, ci li regles:

1. Vu dev ser interesat in aprender de e/o presentante un specific lingue auxiliari. Tal linguas, por exemple, que es plu conosset es Occidental, Interlingua, Ido, Esperanto, Novial, Interglossa, Mundial, Neo, Etc.

2. Vu dev registrer por possir material, obtiner un blog, Etc.

3. Vu dev registrer con vor nomin real.

To es bel mult it por nu. Si, altri vez, Benvenit, e ven junta noi. 

That will be difficult for several reasons.

1. Even the Interlingue-Union does not have much material available from the old publications.

2. Cosmoglotta itself mentioned decades ago that most of the old material was gone, and not available, and that to obtain any would cost more than most could afford.

3. What is available is in the hands of adherentes of other languages who don't want Occidental made available again. So, I doubt they will release any.

4. Many Occists who went to ILa probably wouldn't want to realease any material they have since that would, so to speak, feed the competition.

5. Actually, at the moment, the only real recourse for lots of Occidental is this site, and the Cosmoglotta Biblioteca site at interlingue.com.

6. Unless folks thusly begin to write lots of new material, the two sites I mentioned are it for real and continuously updated material.

7. And, how can they write much new material since so many claim they need the old material to learn how to use Occidental?

As the King of Siam said in the musical: "Tis a puzzlement." 

One problem, as I see it, is simply public perception and awareness. Recently the daily newspaper that I read (The Washington Times, Washington, DC, USA) carried a short article about how baby talk was the "universal language." I recall without digging back through old issues, the article began with something like, English and Esperanto are not the universal language, the utterances mothers use with their babies are.

The point is that with respect to constructed international auxiliary languages, this is a point that advocates of other languageswill have to deal with.

Please translate this page into your favorite auxlang. That is what this site is all about. Working with IAL's, (International Auxiliary  Languages).

If, then, you are a member, and are fluent in your IAL, then please translate the page. 

IMO this is what I call a "strawdog" argument. It is not based on real facts, but on "imagination". That is, that everyone uses English no matter where one goes, and therefore, there is no need to learn anything else.

If the person was honest about reality, then the argument would be, "I see no personal need for an IAL. I speak English and most of my friends are English speakers, and I have no need for learning something else."

In other words, "I see no need nor benefit to myself to learn XYZ language."

There is no real answer to someone who does not want to learn an IAL, anymore than having an answer for a client who doesn't want to buy the salesman's new 60 piston engined new car. The old one still works fine.

The best answer is to let them know you actively use an auxiliary language, and tell them the benefits you've received from using it.

The standard reasons for having and using an IAL don't capture the public's imagination. And, in order to do that, it will take a unified effort by more than one person to come up with the answer that will grab people and make them want to take action.

This site could become one of the steps in that direction, especially if we can begin here to use the IAL's fluenty, and gradually, so folks can follow from day one, so to speak.

With that said, I would like to add:

Occidental es un lingue international. Yo usa Occidental in articules. Occidental es un lingue facil, regulari e "natural".

Yes, ti es un problema fundamental. Ma, li membres posse scrir in li lingue de preferentie. Ti programma es international e altri lingues posse esser usat. A ti tempore yo ne comprende omni aspectes del programma.

Bob